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Master_phruby
This is an idea that I've been kicking around for quite some time. The idea is to organize the biggest and most ambitious group project we have ever done. An entire Star Wars WORLD. This project would go on for an entire year and hopefully be displayed at C4 next year (if we can get a sponser). I'll donate space on my new customizing web site for work in progress pictures of everything and display the final results.

The idea is to get multiple customizing forums together to create citizens for this world. All these characters would go into a large diorama complete with buildings, streets and ships of our design. We could do a planet that has been seen on screen before or something totally new.

This thread is designed to get ideas and volunteers and try to organize this huge undertaking. Everybody is welcome to submit suggestions, time and their work. Let's talk about it here and we can talk about this June 24th at 9pm est in the JD chat room.

You can find out more information at the JD customizing forum. Right now if your interested in belonging to one of the group planning committees, please email me at master.phruby@verizon.net
Jesse James
This is pretty ambitious Paul, and interesting... Would it be something of one's own design really? Like one "world" or town is decided upon and like shopkeepers, bar owners, police, mayor, and other "characters" of this spaceport or whatnot are delegated on a list and everyone picks osmething and goes for it? Then all are set up in this scene?

It's interesting sounding Paul for sure... and definitely ambitious.
Master_phruby
Right now its a free for all. We are trying to come up with some committees and what big features the diorama will have. I think figures and ships will have the most freedom while the dio builds will be more strick. I'd love to have you on board.
pbarny
I think the first thing that needs to be done is narrow the focus. Decide on the local type. Do you want to do a Mos Isley or Death Star like has been done at previous SW Celebrations or do you want to select a new local.

I would say go for a more cosmopolitan city that will allow a wide diversification of alien and human life. There's % break downs you can use that WotC recomends for large cities. A location that would give you some freedom would be unseen (relatively). I would suggest a place like Coronet City, the capital of Corellia. It doesn't become as big and daunting as a place like Coruscant, and you're not limited by design like you would if you did a Mos Espa or Theed.

another thing that's totally from left field is to have people do their own mini dios like a galactic museum display. Everyone pics a world and than makes a "stereotypical" display based on EU data and makes the apropriate alien species. some things like Corellia would have multiple displays (the 5 brothers solar system, each world getting a display etc). If you're looking for a list of planets you can use any of the Galactic Guides from WEG; Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds and Coruscant and the Core Worlds from WotC; or any of the Essential Guides. And since this is for Celebration it should be limited to official already existing worlds. No FanFics otherwise there's no guarantee that your planet X and my planet B aren't identical.
Master_phruby
That's a great idea about the mini dios. I'll have to suggest that Paul. Currently, we are in the process of drawing out the diorama and coming up with a back story for it and a planet name. So far it sounds like a city with an imperial outpost. Then some wilderness (type still being determined) and then a hidden rebel base in a mountain or rocky area.
pbarny
QUOTE (Master_phruby @ Jun 24 2006, 08:03 AM)
That's a great idea about the mini dios. I'll have to suggest that Paul. Currently, we are in the process of drawing out the diorama and coming up with a back story for it and a planet name. So far it sounds like a city with an imperial outpost. Then some wilderness (type still being determined) and then a hidden rebel base in a mountain or rocky area.

Jabiim comes to mind....Course, that would cover several worlds seen in the Dark Horse Clone Wars run.

I mention keeping it "official" just because it might be easier to win aproval with a known (or semi-known) world/location since Lucas Licensing has a hand in it. It also limits the amount of development you or others has to do. On the other hand, it's a convention. You pay for the space so outside of having everyone poo.gif in it, you should be able to do what you want.
Master_phruby
Just an update. We had a chat last saturday and we are in the process of drawing up the diorama plans. If you would like to contribute any concept art or floor plans, please see the thread over in the JD customizing forum. Also, we are having a little contest to come up with a background story for the planet and name. Please submit any stories to me.
Jesse James
Paul,

Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it a lot... Unfortunately my customizing time is limited at best these days, and I'm actually not a likely candidate to make the trek to C4 from Pittsburgh... Unfortunately. With it being in LA my odds went from slim to none really. Costs are increased all around, let alone airfare, so I'm not gonna wind up at the show unfortunately. sad.gif I'll probably just be doing reports for JD from home and hearing about all the good times.

The project sounds interesting though Paul, I've been keeping an eye on some of the progress at JD, so I'm curious to see how it turns out. Should be great man.
Master_phruby
We've recently extended the project to happen at jedidefender and YakFace forums. Special threads have been setup there for discussion. I'm looking for interest from this forum in discussing the UGP. Should we have special threads setup here or will it be ok to just use the ones over at Yak/JD? So far, we've decided on a name, overall map and now we are designing prototype buildings. Tutorials are planed for diorama construction.
Ben Skywalker
I don't think I can show up. I can however make some civillians for it. I could sell them to you if you guys want.
pbarny
Having looked through it, I think my present objection to it stands. You would stand a better chance of getting a sponsor, floor space etc at C4 if you would've gone with an established world, and worked it up from there. Wish you all the luck. Will trade/give you guys the fodder to help you but will not participate.

Also I'm available if you have any carpentry/large dio questions.
Ben Skywalker
I'm kind of with Paul I can Possibly come up with parts for you but I can't really join you guys.
smartypants1635
Thats cool guys No biggie. We have plenty of time, and although we could use your help. It would be just as great if you worked along the sidelines aswell.

Adam UGP secretary
Master_phruby
I want to update you guys on our progress for the Ultimate Group Project Star Wars World. We have about a dozen threads going on on both JediDefender and YakFace discusing the details of the project. I would like to setup a series of threads here so we can discuss the project in more detail. Maybe we cna setup a child board here like we have over at JD and Yak. We've picked leadership for the departments of concept drawings, figures and dioramas. I've also setup up a staff of volunteers to help setup the project at C4 next year. We currently have Chats at 6pm est over at the JediDefender site. Everyone is welcome to come and participate. We currently have about 35 volunteers working on various sections of the project. There is a weekly newsletter to keep everyone up to date. Please pm me to be included in the newsletter.

I've been in contact with GenCon and looked at booth prices at current gen cons. A 10x20 booth space will cost around $2100 or more. Official C4 prices will be available after Sept 20th or so. We've discussed various ways to raise the funds such as custom figure ebay auctions to setting up an entry fee to donations only. Another possible way would be to ask LFL directly for free fan booth space or even go in with another site on booth space.

We are in the process of setting up a web site dedicated to the project. This site will hold press information, tutorial links to ffurg and an extensive picture gallery of work in progress pictures and event pictures.

We've decided on a background story and name for the planet. The planet is totally fan fiction in order to allow us the more flexibility in the customs we make. The timeframe will be between ep3 and 4 but closer to ep4. The basic layout of the diorama will be a large city base with an imperial outpost in the center of it. Outside the city walls will be grasslands with a number of small native creatures. On the opposite site of the diorama will be a large mountain. Inside the large mountain will be rebel base complete with large scale x-wings and other fan made ships.

The next thing we have done is created a series of concept art. This includes a number of buildings, vehicles and the native species. We've designed a series of special ops stormtrooper figures as our security force and have built a number of large structures including an impressive imperial bunker.

That is about it right now. We're still at the planning phases of the project and need lots of ideas. Everybody is welcome to help participate. This project has the potential to be one of the biggest and best dioramas displayed at any con. It can really show what our customizing community can do.
Delaton
I understand the reason for locating this in two spots on FFURG, but lets not flood the FFORUMS with multiple information. Pick a thread and keep it there.

Thanks.
FoxtrotDelta
Now you stirred up something, sounds like a marvelous plan, very challenging and I love challenges. Foxtrot Delta
Jesse James
Paul, also the forum software here isn't like at JD with childboards and all that stuff... It's just different. I think the updates in this thread are going good though. This is the most traveled and active area here so this is a good one to keep it going in I think. It's working well so far anyway. smile.gif
CHEWIE
Jesse - would you consider a sticky thread for the UGP? I understand the whole child board issue. If we could get a sticky that would be great - if not, that's fine.

Phruby - the only thing that has held me back (besides being terribly busy at work) is that we are waiting on confirmation on the cost. If indeed it's free like we're hoping, then as soon as we can I think we need to get the space reserved. After we know cost - here's what I think the next steps are;

(1) agree on how we are doing the landscape - I am copying my post from Yakface on what I think needs to be done below

(2) finalize the actual size of the landscape

(3) start doing the fundraiser ideas/etc. for the supplies we need

Also I am willing to use Yakface to promote the project. I am also going to be promoting the JD chats - (which I think should be moved to Wednesday nights). As soon as we have a cost for space and a reservation made, there will be more news on the front page at Yakface about it.

Everyone else - as for some people not being interested - that's ok. Not everyone is going to want to be a part of it, and that's fine. It's a large project and it's not going to be a cakewalk.

As for the comment made in another thread that people will not be interested because it's a fan-fiction planet - that's fine. Obviously not everyone likes fan-fiction stuff, but when the project was first mentioned at JD, the overwhelming majority wanted to do a fan-fiction planet. That way we didn't have the restrictions of trying to "copy" a world in Star Warst - and God knows the scrutiny that would have taken place from people nit-picking because it might not look 100% like something from a film. Heck, if you have one detail on an Imperial badge incorrect, some people jump down your throat. So doing a fan-fiction planet to me is the best way to go about this. Plus, it allows for more freedom and shows even more creativity. So - yes, maybe we would have more traffic if it were an established planet we were working on, but I think doing a fan-fiction one was our best bet and am glad it was chosen.

Anyways - the major concern for me once we get a space reserved, is the landscape. Originally it was discussed that people would each make their own section of the landscape and send it. I didn't like the idea at the time, and the more I think about it, I like that idea even less.

So, last weekend I purchased a Woodland Scenics Ready Mat to see if it could work. It seemed to really work out well (pics below). I really hope we use the Ready Mats - if we go about it in a different manner, I think the compatability issues of so many modules may render it confusing to viewers and look very unorganized if we don't go with the Ready Mats.

If we have people send foamcore sections to piece together, I am willing to bet that it will not look right. Even if they end up being off by just 1/8 of an inch (and I think that's best case scenario) it'll look like a bunch of steps and that just vertically. Fit issues would definitely occur too.
Another big thing is that with whatever the standard size is, everyone is going to naturally center their structure or plants in the available area. So, when all of them are put together it would look odd if everything is evenly spaced out or centered by grid.

Color matching will be a problem too, everyone uses different paints and has different color preferences so there's probably going to be odd, distinct borders between everyone's section.

I think that if we use the Ready Mats, it will create a consistent landscape and on site we can add on the already made/shipped structures (like buildings, trees, etc) and it would be more adjustable and probably a lot more naturalistic. I am thinking what we will want to do is also send several ziplock backs full of different types of dirt/grassy materials, etc. to spread over certain areas on site. Spray paint can work very well too.

Please take this into consideration guys - in my opinion if we don't go with the Ready Mats, this entire project is going to flop.

Here is an example of what the Ready Mats can do -



Here is what I did for this - fortunately I did not need to "make" much stuff for it, I am thinking that as much as we can avoid making, but still making things affordable, it will help.

1.) - I bought a piece of subfloor (like a large sheet of foamcore, but is wood) from Home Depot, the smallest sheet I could get was about 3 feet x 4 feet. For what I wanted to do, I wanted to scale it down to 2 feet x 3 feet so it could fit on the shelf I put it on. The board was 1/4 of an inch thick. I went with that instead of the 1/8 inch to avoid warping.

2.) - Then, I measured out the frame I needed for it to be. Once it was measured out, I made lines with a pencil where I needed to cut. I cut it with a heavy duty utility knife. Took me about 10 minutes to get it cut.

3.) - After that, I had a roll of Woodland Scenics ready mat that I had purchased from a hobby store for $25.00. The ready mat measures 50 inches by 100 inches, so it's huge and you get a lot for your money. It is meant to resemble grass/tundra.

4.) - After cutting the ready mat to fit onto the board, I had some styrofoam glue spray - this is a spray that you get at hobby stores made to bond styrofoam together for craft projects - it worked PERFECT for sealing the mat onto the board. Took less than a minute to get it how I wanted it.

5.) - Once the mat was secured onto the board, I flipped it upside down and traced around it using the utility knife to cut off any excess mat that I did not want.

6.) - At that point, I used a bit of spray paint here and there just to add different color texture to the mat.

7.) - The mountain background is from Michael's - it's not cheap but it really looks cool. I have bought several of them in the past and spray painted this one to give it more of a hard stone appearance. My mountain technique is not the cheap way to make them at all, but they do look good I think.

8.) - The Gun Tower is something I purchased from my friend Owen D. at www.owenscustoms.com a while back, just added it for variety

9.) - The shrubs are just cheap lichen you can get at Michael's. It's cheap and easy to use - and can just be added on on-site.

10) - The grassy plant is from Michael's too - they have TONS of little plants like this for pretty cheap, and so does Hobby Lobby. Might be worth getting stuff like that for cheap instead of trying to make so many of our own plants.

11) - The trees are from Kmart - Christmas scene trees actually - they had snow on them but I just repainted them to get rid of the snow.

It may not appear to look much like grass in the pic, but in person it does look more like it, and with cheap shrubbery we can flesh out the diorama wilderness rather easily I think. Plus with just 2 ready mats - we can cover an area of about 8 feet x 16 feet VERY easily and it will allow for the ground terrain to have a consistent look to it. Plus if we have a large board, a team of 3-4 people on site can probably have the main base of the terrain put together in an hour of less. To me that makes so much more sense than people trying to make a ground in several locations, ship it, and try to piece it together. That would be a failed plan - I am 100% against people trying to make separate ground sections. There is no way we will be able to get it to look right - it will be such a headache and simply would not work.

Plus, there is a way to add in hills with the Ready Mats too, we would need a heat gun to do it but apparently it works well and is simple to do. I will look into this. But adding hills right now is the least of my concerns.

For terrain like caves, trees, etc - we can have individual people make there stuff and sent it. But to actually make the "ground" where different people make different sections... I think that would be a terrible mistake and to be honest I want no part of that. I would consider dropping out of the project if we try and move in that direction.

Here is an example of what we can do by making the actual structures/etc. that are added to it -
















I can't stress enough my concern on the landscape of this project. It was discussed in the chat on Sunday at JD that it looks like the roll out mat (like used here) would be good because it covers such a large area - just two of them covers 8 feet x 16 feet. That's more than enough I think and that would only cost us $50.00! We can add in trees, moutains, shrubs, patches of grass, bushes, rocks, caves, etc. onto it afer it's been laid out.

ph34r.gif
Jesse James
If I may make a suggestion as well...

Foliage is, or can be expensive... Keep your eyes on dollar stores and their holiday "train layout" things. Big Lots has pine trees with snow on them... Some fairly large ones. There's also a large picket fence piece for $1. There are $1 for a curved and straight piece ($1 for both) set of cobblestone sidewalk...

This stuff's all fine for SW figure scale. The trees come in variety of sizes but are a bit more $$$.

Anyway, it's cheap set dressing for stuff... Something to consider. Also street lamps and the like can be BS'd into a cityscape. Remember real-world looks int he SW universe are common. Think of Naboo and Theed... Very Italian Earthy looking. Almost a Renaissance City with hovering cars and whatnot.

The Banking Clan's planet in the CW toons, very ancient Greece looking... So a "Victorian" look, with modernized pieces of course, may be a way to get pieces cheap, make a unique llooking city, and you have the stuff coming out now to retailers (everyone from Lowes to WM to Dollar Stores carry holiday train layout stuff) to buy and use.

Just some thoughts from your friendly FFURG staffer here... smile.gif I'll see about a sticky for this thread by the way.
pbarny
QUOTE (CHEWIE @ Oct 4 2006, 01:22 PM)
[
Everyone else - as for some people not being interested - that's ok.  Not everyone is going to want to be a part of it, and that's fine.  It's a large project and it's not going to be a cakewalk.

As for the comment made in another thread that people will not be interested because it's a fan-fiction planet - that's fine.  Obviously not everyone likes fan-fiction stuff, but when the project was first mentioned at JD, the overwhelming majority wanted to do a fan-fiction planet.  That way we didn't have the restrictions of trying to "copy" a world in Star Warst - and God knows the scrutiny that would have taken place from people nit-picking because it might not look 100% like something from a film.

Not my point. The point on choosing an established would would have solved most the problems with terms of design you speak of. Second, it would also increase the chance of a sponsor from an established licensee because you would be promoting their work reducing your costs, time to be inputted and what not. Still left with the problem of space and whatever the sponsor doesn't cover.

Also, never said it had to be a film world but a world with a signficant amount of material and background already existing like Corellia (which you could call the Las Vegas Coruscant). That way you still have the freedom, but you have a name that can be recognized by most (or even some).

Anyways, on to some expertise I could pass on...I'm going to talk about templates with respect that wood workers do. They guide the tools to create the same pattern over and over. It does cost to make a good template, but the use in repeatedly copying it over and over onto the work piece saves you time and saves you materials so that you don't make mistakes trying to make the same patterns over and over again. Assigning one or two people to make templates and than post them or send them to others would help create a unified design.

Imperial Architecture/style is universal. If its on the screen or in the books, you should copy that, even make templates to all who work on Empire related things. Do not invent anything Imperial. Otherwise, you'll end up with the rank badge lookers going after your work.

Second what JJ says on copying a style from this world and twisting it. But the same thing goes, you make templates. The beauty about templates is that you can than turn them upside down, sideways, etc. You have all the same elements but it's always different enough to make one think it is alien.

Landscaping...this is just to throw everyone a curve. Want to make the world seem alien/different? Assume that it has a different ozone layer. This will effect the Raliegh Scattering (why the sky is blue), which will cause different colors of chlorophyl occur. Key example, Felucia in ROTS. Plants are more pastel/fluorescent in nature. Making a common Maple tree from a Model Rail Road kit go from dark purple/red leaves to say black with ochre highlights or even blue turns your world 180 degrees from expected. Cheap way to do this? Dye the model plant and than apply with the paint.
Delaton
The one piece of advice I could give regarding this project is cost. The organizers will bear the brunt of the costs, no matter who is involved or how many items are donated. Expect to spend a lot of money if you want this to look right.

On that note, a way to make inexpensive trees, although it's time consuming, is to buy a large spool of insulated electronics wire, like 22GA or 20 GA. You pick a certain length, find something solid to use as a base like a 1x10 board, and you wrap the wire loosely around the 10" width. Wrap it around a couple dozen times (the more wraps, the thicker the trunk. Slide it off the base and snip every loop, top and bottom. Twist the wire together to form a trunk till about half-way up, then twist off the branches, combining several small wires into main branches, secondary branches, etc. Twist the bottom of the truck off to form roots. Then, use epoxy(best), plaster(cheapest), clay(available), or some other product to cover the truck and main branches to make bark. Then, either model a non-foliated time of year on this planet (ie.: no leaves) or use flock, lichen, or foam to make leaves.

Good luck!
CHEWIE
Thanks for the advice/ideas.

Good news, looks like our friend Frank (Niub Niub) is going to be able to allow for us to use part of his workshop space for the diorama.

ph34r.gif
Glassman6


I just thought I would post a quick message about the status of the Ultimate Group Project( if you dont normally check the dedicated threads). A group of customizers is building a full scale imperial city for C4. This project is huge in scale and we need your help. We have secured an official fan booth at C4 and will be displaying the actually diorama as part of Niub Niub's Endor diorama booth.

I'm putting out a call for miscellanous citizens, aliens, robots, small accessories and vehicles to populate the city. We are also still working on the individual buildings. If you would like to help out and be involved, please see the the official UGP web site at
http://ultimategroupproject.t-j-p.net/

and check out the offical threads happening at Jedi Defender and Yak Face.
http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?board=58.0
http://cgi.denpetersen.com/YAK1/index.php

We stress that you do not use and of the "buff" early POTF2 figures. We want to keep the scale as close to modern day hasbro figures as possible.

You can LOAN or DONATE your figure/figures. If you want them back it is OK. If not, thats ok too.

PLease contact me for info as to where to ship figures when done or check out the info at the links mentioned in the post above.

OUR DEADLINE IS MAY 1st. A little less than a month. SO it isn't that far away!!!

Thanks in advance.

Your friendly neighborhood Glassman.
Master_phruby
Please start sending in what figures you have for the UGP. Waiting until the last day before c4 will guantee that your item doesn't make it into the dio.

Email ghost.host@verizon.net for shipping address.
Master_phruby
Well we did it and on budget despite what certain nay sayers around here were saying. It would have been nice to have some FFURG representation. Maybe next time. We had enough space to quadripple our diorama. We were able to raise funds via a custom figure auction and donations. We gave out stickers and had a raffle for figures and buildings so I don't have to ship alot back. Cost wise came out to be free and did not cost me or any of the other staff anything beyond our assigned projects. LFL and Niub Niub really came thru dispite some union labor headaches.

I think we should double the size at C5.
Delaton
Well, ok, where do I begin my rant. First, the praise. You guys did a good job. Your really showed how customizing could be done in a fan-fic creative process as opposed to only movie specific customs.

As far as FFURG presence, give me a friggin' break. For the record, there are 5 Admins on FFURG who live in:
Chicago, IL
Columbus, OH
Louisville, KY
Pittsburgh, PA
Boston, MA

Are any of us near LA? No. We're all central or east coast. However, despite that, Jason and I still checked flights and accommodations twice before C4 and we couldn't get there without spending way too much money on airfare and hotel. LFL's decision to hold C4 in LA meant that FFURG COULD NOT GO, nor could we as an organization donate funds since FFURG itself, ie. Tim, is in the hole for quite a bit server fees from all the years of providing FFURG as a free resource to the customizing community. And I'm not going to even comment on the "nay sayers" bit...not worth my breath.

I don't speak for the other 4 admins at FFURG so take it as one guy's opinion. Overall you guys did a good job. Just understand the situation before pissing about lack of FFURG involvement.
Master_phruby
Lets see, forum members could have sent figures in. They could have built buildings and mailed them in. They could have had a long discussion threads about how things should work. Work in progress pictures could have been posted. A section could have been created just for the UGP.

We had people from all over the country send stuff in (mostly east coast). No one had to be at C4 in order to participate. Infact, most of the participants were not. Everything was mailed to me and I'm in the process of mailing it back. FFURG could have supported the project with status report posts on the front page. I'd supply the pictures if not one of the staff could have phyiscally gone.

All of these things cost absolutely nothing to FFURG but gives back huge amounts of advertising during C4. This site could have gotten lots of hits from people interested in what we showed at C4 which means advertising dollars for FFURG. We had camera crews film the diorama, we gave media interviews and majorly hyped both JD and Yak websites.

I wanted so badly to have FFURG involved but whenever I talked about the project here all I got was a really cold feeling from certain posters and staff. That's too bad considering I've been part of FFURG since the listserve days.

I still would love to have FFURG involved with the UGP during C5 in two years. This site is all about my hobby and I want to see it grow to its full potential.
CorranHorn
Ok I'm going to hop in on something here, but before I do I want to make note that if this becomes one of those silly internet flame wars, like ones that made the Listserv unbearable at times, I'm going to delete all the posts (including my own) following Paul's last update from 4/20. So let's all keep this civil and adult like, thanks! smile.gif

Ok with admin rant out of the way, let me say that Paul I had written back to you after the staff here talked amongst ourselves on whether or not C4 was feasible for us and if we could do a combine booth thing with the UGP. My message was that we couldn't make it but I suggested to speak with Mary at LFL who had been very helpful to us back at C3. I never heard back from you which I took to be that either you didn't get my message (I believe it was a PM here on the FForums) or that you were disappointed in the unfortunate circumstance and went on with your work to get UGP going for C4. If it was the former then I'm partially to blame for not following up to see if you got the message, if it was the latter I didn't really concern myself as that was your choice to make.

Either way I didn't let it effect me and I tried to keep up with the basic follow ups for the UGP here and at JD as time permitted (usually killing time at the office). With the lack of my own personal availability, I did not participate in the discussions about UGP and all that, but had I been asked to make posts on the main page of FFURG about updates on the UGP I would have loved to do so. It would have gotten word out about the great ideas the group had for the project, made it accessible to more people, and would have gotten us some actual updates on FFURG besides the Hasbro Q&A. But I never received a PM or an email (as far as I can tell thru all the spam we get) asking for mentions on the main page and to be honest I didn't go looking for anything either.

While I'd love to see this site grow more and more as I've worked extremely hard in my 6+ years on this site taking over where Dan, Doug, and Tim left off with daily updates, a lack of new submissions across the board has ebbed my enthusiasm at times. Take that into account along with my own private life (and I'm not going to get into a discussion about people having busy lives, we all have that, it's just a matter of how we handle it that differs) and my unfortunate lack of involvement on the site becomes more obvious. But had I seen requests to make some posts I would have hopped on that as soon as I could to help support the entire community, but no one ever came to me asking nor do I recall hearing about requests from any of the other staff.

Now about the costs, the staff hemmed and hawed for weeks about whether we could do C4 and it just wasn't in the cards. I wanted to try donations but for what we would have needed it would never have worked. None of us could afford to drop the hundreds upon hundreds of dollars that airfare, hotel, potential transportation, food, and entry fees that would have been needed on an individual basis just to get to C4. And that doesn't count the supplies we would have needed to make a booth happen.
While I greatly appreciate each and every person who bought or considered buying one of the C3 shirts, the money we made on those sales did not cover even our most basic supply costs (brushes, paints, etc) for the show. Had we not gotten two big fodder donations from Dennis and Dave, we would have had a hell of a time getting enough figures made to allow each kid to take one home. So a lot of what people saw at C3 came out of our own pockets, but compared to what would have come out of our pockets for C4, C3 was a mere pittance. So from our POV C4 just wasn't going to happen based on the LA location - which yeah worked great for many people out on the left coast (Paul I believe you're from that area yeah?) but did a disservice to many people east of the Mississippi such as all but two FFURG staff members (one lives in Cali, the other was going via another site). But I'm not going to complain about it in the end, it's a moot point. I so wanted it to happen, but we just couldn't get it done.

Hell I'm surprised LFL or GenCon didn't come to us asking for our presence at C4. Next to Frank's diorama section, the FFURG booth did more to bring in people, especially kids and their families to the Fan Hall at C3 than any other group there. That's not a knock on any of those other groups, they were all great but we had a daily interactivity that only one other section had and it was a shame that we weren't recognized for it by the people running the convention. But that doesn't matter to me because the people who did recognize it - all the friends we made at C3, from the smiles on the kids faces, to their parents who were elated to see their kids having fun, to all the great people who took time to volunteer and help out - made it all worth it, so I won't harp on it any longer, I just wanted to say that publicly since I've been holding it in for several months now.

Sorry about that, I got off on a tangent there for a bit. My whole point to this post was that a lot of things went into what's perceived as nay-saying and lack of support from FFURG. But there isn't the whole story being presented or anyone on either side of the fence until now actually owning up to say that hey "I should have done this" or "we could have done that", so any arguing over this is pointless without that. C4 has come and gone and the UGP did a fantastic job from the pictures I've seen. Every person involved should be as proud of their accomplishments at C4 as I am of FFURG's accomplishments at C3. So why harp on things that didn't pan out the way people would have liked, instead let's try to work on what can be done for C5 in the event that C5 takes place.

That's my two cents and just seeing it now, this is probably the longest post I've made in forever and a day.
Fritzkrieg
Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, But I was suprised by the lack of excitment for the UGP on these boards. I really expected FFURG to behind this project full force. I understand that not being there put a huge damper on the enthusiasim for this project. I know I was very disapointed I could not attend myself to keep an eye on my babies, but still contributed a lot through custom submissions, fund raising auctions, and sponsorship. I gave what I could even though I could not be there hands on. FFURG being the Flagship Website for the Hobby could have given a little front page press, to shine a little more light on the project, I don't think that would have cost anything. If this was a pride thing, were it was not done because it was not asked of FFURG, that's just ashame. I hope the admins of this site would not put their own pride over the genral good of the hobby.

Just my 2cents,
Fritzkrieg
CorranHorn
Fritz,

Thanks for the input, you're certainly not out of turn as it's an open discussion. Also thanks for the kind remark about the site, I'm glad to see people still think of the site fondly.

To answer your comments (and don't worry if you're concerned any offense was taken, as none was), it certainly was not an issue of pride that saw no posts on the main page about the UGP event. It was an issue of procrastination on my part for not really doing much to update anything on the main page for the reasons I previously mentioned. It was also an issue of not being asked for more FFURG involvement by Paul and everyone else who ran the UGP. As I previously mentioned I would have loved to at least post some updates on the main page had I been provided them, but that never came up. But without that prompting we weren't going to see anything happen as I mentioned before.

What we did do was pin this very topic to the top of the highest viewed section of the FForums after Paul had asked about a UGP section like the one over at JD. At the time we didn't go with a dedicated section as we wanted to wait to see how things progressed with conversation in this thread. Progress was quite slow, to the fact that the few times anyone posted about the UGP, they did so in separate threads in multiple sections. And as time moved on we saw little if any discussion here, but much at JD, which was the decision and choice the UGP coordinators made and there's absolutely no hard feelings or hurt pride over that.

That's pretty much there is to this tale. No intended slights against anyone from the FFURG side of things and I would like to believe the same could be said from the UGP side of things. I hope no one interprets what has been said in any other way as that only leads to the lameness that is internet feuding and I've seen enough of that BS over the years from many of the collecting sites to fill a book, or at least a blog.
pendragon
QUOTE
It was also an issue of not being asked for more FFURG involvement by Paul and everyone else who ran the UGP. As I previously mentioned I would have loved to at least post some updates on the main page had I been provided them, but that never came up. But without that prompting we weren't going to see anything happen as I mentioned before.


No worries, man! I understand completely how running a site can be. We'll just make sure that everyone understands each other & is kept up to date if/when we do this again!

There shouldn't be any hard feeling here. Fritz spoke for a lot of us - most of us that were involved with the UGP started out on FFURG, and still view it with the same respect & love that we'd give an alma mater that we could be proud of graduated.gif

We all just need to keep communications a little clearer wink.gif
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